The Great Bush Debate

Black Widow

Black Widow

Twisted Metal
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Jan 22, 2005
Messages
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The Sunshine State
Happy NOW dear? :p

Background Convo:
Spellbinder: i rushed out of here at lunch time to fill up my car with gas before the prices went into orbit..and not even an hour later after i did the price jumped from $2.99 to $3.19 ..and by this weekend..its supposed to get up to $5.00/gallon. the economic fall out from katrina << shudder>>

Hawksmoor: Another? Can't seem to move for those, these days...

SB:bush and his cronies are loving this shit. meanwhile..for us to be the "greatest country" there is....yahoo news is reporting that authorities and rescue efforts are already being "overwhelmed". the navy is being asked to send in some boats to help evacuate folks in the super dome to texas...and they are also asking for a hospital ship...since the hospitals are without power

Tommy Udo: The sickest part is that the fallout is a paper tiger, a concieved scheme by the powers that be to rape the peeps of their hard earned $$$ They think that we're stupid enough not to investigate them. I think they're in for a suprise once eyes begin to open...The prices will fall back down again quickly, but millions will have been made in the small window of time that they will have deemed as a resonable panic

SB: thats EXACTLY what Jennifer Granholm said this morning (our governor) she's a democrat and she hates bush LOL!

ZorCrow: WHY THE BUSH BASHING? THIS HURRICANE ISN'T BUSH'S FAULT,
GET OFF YOUR ANTI BUSH PILL FOLKS . . yeshhh BUSH is this, BUSH is that, BUSH is the man who's President and needs some respect in this nation, this oil crisis should have been taken care of by the democrats all the years they ran congress but they didn't

Prophet: Zorcrow.. I didn't vote for that ass so I don't OWE him anything, in fact I don't WANT him running my country.. last time I checked Freedom of Speech is in the constitution...

DonDaddyD: My God, Zorcrow are you seriously pro Bush?

Prop: AND... Bush has had Five Years and hasnt done a DAMN thing except to get the country in even more debt.. Man.. I miss Clinton. Hillary Clinton for 2008! ;)

Crow: Hillary Clinton heck no she won't win she's a jerk . secondly,
BUSH is not responsible for all the ills in our society and nation,
there are a lot of powers that be . . . Secondly, the President has LITTLE influence on your day to day life. Folks need to take responsibility and stop blaming Presidents in D.C.
and I'm not Pro Bush, my state Michigan went to John Kerry and I voted and I didn't vote for BUSH . . .

SB: i'd do a DRIVE BY SPELL on Bush if i had the chance. his secret service men cant protect him from MAGICK! :fdevil:

Crow: Spellbinder GOD can protect him from your magick . .
secondly, the secret service would have their wiccans track you down . . .

Hawksmoor: Maybe he has little effect on an individual life, but you need to see the bigger picture. Bush started with half a trillion dollars surplus budget, and currently has a 4 trillion deficit, I believe. You can't tell me that's good

Crow: YES, BUT FOLKS ARE BLAMING HIM FOR EVERYTHING AND IT'S PATHETIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I AGREE WITH RUSH LIMBAUGH, folks think that some guy in D.C. matters more in their lives than their own decisions . . .

Greatness: I how stupid is bush exactly? Also as the american people how dumb are we for letting him in office again?

Titania: Greatness, I like to maintain that it isnt how dumb we Americans are for electing him.. its how LIMITED the choices are. :rolleyes: Bush or Kerry? Do i want to shoot myself in the foot or the ass?

SB: the lesser of two evils: KERRY. now will someone make a goddamn thread? before i close this shout box? thank you.

DDD: I'm not getting it wasn't Kerry the lesser of two Evils? Why did people go for Bush? Tony Blair may support him but I know of know English person or European who likes or supports Bush. Hyperion?Hawksmoore (sorry) are you pro Bush?

Ti: I swear...whoever gets elected next term...they'd BETTER bring our troops home from this god forsaken war...I KNOW were helping these people with security and relief... but we've been over there for YEARS now... let the country stabilize ITSELF.

DDD: Thats the problem the country wont stabilise itself and if America leaves with the job half done they run risk of letting a worse American hateing Dictator into power. Plus the World will never forgive America if they leave Iraq in the state it is in now as the UN will have to pick up the peices and foot the bill. And they didn't want America to go there in the first place.
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Kerry's problem was that he didnt have himself TOGETHER... many people's problem with him was that he was too wishy washy. People argued that he contradicted himself too much.

I thought jsut about ANYONE would do over Bush... Who has been a PLAGUE for our government and our economy. Yes, he took action and got things DONE after 9/11... but he didnt make ANY sound decisions after that [as far as i recall.]
 
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Personally I feel that bushs presence in the white house is only showing how little we value our people. Lets look at the facts.

- Bush has started a war that had no valid reason

- Bush has made america a target by bypassing the UN and launching a preemptive strike against a 3rd world country because we "Think they might be a treat." I am sorry but this makes us a target to whoever build the next big bomb. They can use the excuse of hey they might have been a threat.

- Bush still hasnt found osama but managed to kill both saddams kids and find saddam.

- Bush can barely put a sentence together and cant read the prompter correctly.

- Bush has put us in more debt than all the minorties in the US combined. (I am a minority please dont get offended its a joke about the minority part.)

- Bush pays no attention to the economy only to the war which we cant win since the people there didnt want us there anyway. We are saving a country who didnt want to be saved.

- Bush has lead tons of US and Iraq Citizens to death for no reason.

- Bush blames 9/11 for this when the people responisible for 9/11 havent been found to have any connection to the country we are attacking.

In the end

FUCK BUSH, SHAVE THAT SHIT
 
As I understood it though didn't he give the Al'Quaida time to leave Afganistan before he attacked.

I don't know how much of it was accurate but after watching Farenhiet 9/11 there seems to be a lot of loops to Bush's actions

As I said I don't know how much is true but what Micheal Moore claimed was that Bush always wanted to go to Iraq even though he had no good reason other than oil. He also claimed that though Bush went to Afganistan he held the majority of his troops back as he knew he was going to war with Iraq.

As for Afganistan Moore claims that Bush gave Bin Laden and the Al'Quaida ample time to leave the country and now that America is incharge of it (Bush placed his own man in charge of the country) there is an American oilpipline running through the country.

It is also claimed that in the past Bush (his father) knew Osama and his family personally.

Even if any one of these claims are true I don't see how Bush is fit to run a country.
 
even IF Kerry didnt "have him self together"....(which is debatable itself) Bush one this election because of a collective fear, ignorance and a neo conservative movement that distracted from the REAL ISSUES. What is more important...the WAR (which is bullshit) or "moral values"? (which should be governed by each person and his/her family as EVERYONE has a different moral compass).

Bush hoodwinked ALOT OF PEOPLE..using his "moral values" platform to distract fromt he fact that he's a liar, war mongerer and he is NOT for the people..he is for the ELITE FEW.

we are just BEGINNING to see the error of our ways as illegal immigrants invade our country, every goddamn gas station on every corner is owned and controlled by an ARAB, jobs are STILL SCARCE, civil liberties are being ERRODED as wel speak (the FBI just branded the A.C.L.U a possible TERRORIST group), and this country is fast become LESS AND LESS a democracy and MORE AND MORE a FACIST republic.
 
DonDaddyD said:
Why is every gas/petrol station being owned by an arab a bad thing?

Though when I think about it over in London a VAST majority of petrol stations are run by people of the arabic persuassion as well... I wonder why that is...
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because in many large cities, especially DETROIT which has Dearborn as a city neighbor [and this city contains the largest concentrated population of arabs in the country] ALL of our gas stations, and convinience stores are pretty much owned/controlled by arabs....in this day and age..it just doesnt sit well with many people that i know ...even co workers and people in passing that our businesses are not really OUR businesses...they arent american owned, ran or operated.

and lets not even get started on the OUTSOURCING epidemic that has swept over america like a wild fire since Bush got into office the FIRST time and its STILL the same today. more and more americans are losing their jobs to foreign workers...and the shit just isnt right.
 
Spellbinder said:
even IF Kerry didnt "have him self together"....(which is debatable itself) Bush one this election because of a collective fear, ignorance and a neo conservative movement that distracted from the REAL ISSUES. What is more important...the WAR (which is bullshit) or "moral values"? (which should be governed by each person and his/her family as EVERYONE has a different moral compass).

Bush hoodwinked ALOT OF PEOPLE..using his "moral values" platform to distract fromt he fact that he's a liar, war mongerer and he is NOT for the people..he is for the ELITE FEW.

we are just BEGINNING to see the error of our ways as illegal immigrants invade our country, every goddamn gas station on every corner is owned and controlled by an ARAB, jobs are STILL SCARCE, civil liberties are being ERRODED as wel speak (the FBI just branded the A.C.L.U a possible TERRORIST group), and this country is fast become LESS AND LESS a democracy and MORE AND MORE a FACIST republic.
Click to expand...

Let's dance, chica.

First of all, ignorance is something no one can control, unless you're proposing that President Bush has somehow found a way to mass-brainwash our American citizens. Ignorance is perpetuated by contemporary pop culture, and a president has no influence on that. Neo-conservatism.. uh, well, if his political stance is appealing, and our American citizens are the vote.. logic would follow that he'd be re-elected. Finally, that "fear" is real. Every day, this world grows more dangerous, and we need a decisive president.

He is not a liar. He is not a war monger -- he's a wartime president, and thus, war will be a big part of his job. He didn't instigate 9/11.

Illegal immigrants EXIST because the Immigration department doesn't know how to do its job, and it takes forever and then some to become legal. These ILLEGAL immigrants are also the ONLY ones who are willing to take lower paying jobs.. the kind of jobs that we need, but don't think much about. How many caucasians have you seen as janitors? The Arab comment has racist undertones. Our economy is actually improving.

I fail to see any merit to such sensational claims that we're becoming less democratic.

This "shit" you're talking about is called capitalism, and it's a foundation of your society. If you're going to argue against capitalism, you're opening up a whole can of worms.
 
Bane said:
Let's dance, chica.

First of all, ignorance is something no one can control, unless you're proposing that President Bush has somehow found a way to mass-brainwash our American citizens. Ignorance is perpetuated by contemporary pop culture, and a president has no influence on that. Neo-conservatism.. uh, well, if his political stance is appealing, and our American citizens are the vote.. logic would follow that he'd be re-elected. Finally, that "fear" is real. Every day, this world grows more dangerous, and we need a decisive president.

He is not a liar. He is not a war monger -- he's a wartime president, and thus, war will be a big part of his job. He didn't instigate 9/11.

Illegal immigrants EXIST because the Immigration department doesn't know how to do its job, and it takes forever and then some to become legal. These ILLEGAL immigrants are also the ONLY ones who are willing to take lower paying jobs.. the kind of jobs that we need, but don't think much about. How many caucasians have you seen as janitors? The Arab comment has racist undertones. Our economy is actually improving.

I fail to see any merit to such sensational claims that we're becoming less democratic.

This "shit" you're talking about is called capitalism, and it's a foundation of your society. If you're going to argue against capitalism, you're opening up a whole can of worms.
Click to expand...

just because something is APPEALING doesnt mean its right. its NOT right for folks to think that the moral compass of the right wing or religious right is the ONLY compass for ALL people in america. NOT everyone in this country is a bible thumping christian and there is a REASON for "seperation of church and state"...its NECESSARY.

the world grows more dangerous for US as a country because BUSH is alienating our allies with his unilateral actions. he is NOT improvign relations overseas...but ERRODING THEM. The world is more dangerous for US because Bush is using his power to try to FORCE his "ideals" on other countrys (iraq anyone)? we have problems here in our own country that are in dire need of addressing and yet...we are now TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS in debt because of a war that shouldnt have happened.

and as for him "NOT instigating 9/11"...thats something i dont even want to get into..not yet anyway

and you DONT think that this country is becoming a facist republic? lets review the signs..shall we? and see if there isnt MORE than one parallel between that and what is happening here right now

14 signs that your government is Facist

How many apply to the U.S. and the agenda of "Conservatives, Right Wing, Republicans"--Coincedence or not, you be the judge?

1.Powerful and Continuing Nationalism
Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottoes, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.(Extremely common after 9/11, lapels on everyone's coats,jackets and flags everywhere)


2.Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights
Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture-(Abu Ghraib), summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners-(Guantanamo Bay), etc.


3.Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause
The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.("War On Terror",Iraq,Afghanistan, Arabs, Muslims..etc.)


4.Supremacy of the Military
Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.("Support Our Troops...", GI JOE toys, Armed Forces Commercials, extreme proliferation of military video games and media from Tom Clancy's series,Socom and various others and also heavy military spending in favor of real social issues at home.)


5.Rampant Sexism
The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid-(Laura Bush) Opposition to abortion is high as well as pro death penalty, as is homophobia and anti-gay legislation and national policy.("Doublethink" philosophy of right to life usually means the opposite as in most right to life people are pro death penalty, as far as the abortion issue, its they that want to decide who lives or not as well. The 2004 presidential election main issues for Bush "winning" the election)


6.Controlled Mass Media
Sometimes the media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.(FOX News Channel,Clear Channel,CNN, MSNBC, ABC, New York Post..etc)


7.Obsession with National Security
Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.(Constant false "terror" threat reminders red, blue, orange, extensive police and military prescence in public places)

8.Religion and Government are Intertwined
Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation (Christianity) as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders (Pat Roberts,Jerry Falwell,Ann Coulture,etc.Bush originally referred to a "Crusade" for his redeclared"War On Terror", also claims God chose him to lead the nation, numerous mentions to being "Born Again"), even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions.


9.Corporate Power is Protected
The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.(Enron, Tyco, MCI Worldcom,Halliburton..etc...)


10.Labor Power is Suppressed
Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed .(Labor movements have long since been demonized as communists,socialists,leftists,etc because of the threat to private power, now when we think "Union", the "Mafia" automatically comes to mind and everything else negative associated with it.Corporations control everything! too long to list!)


11.Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts
Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts is openly attacked, and governments often refuse to fund the arts.(Drastic cutbacks in education and art programs throughout the entire nation)


12.Obsession with Crime and Punishment
Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.(USA Patriot Act, Total Information Awareness..nuff said)


13.Rampant Cronyism and Corruption
Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.(Too many to list here but Dick Cheney is one them)


14.Fraudulent Elections
Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against (John Kerry's war record and "Flip Flopper" remarks also 2000 Primary where Karl Rove smear campaigns on John McCain) or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries,(Electoral College) and manipulation of the media(FOX News Channel). Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries (Katherine Harris, Clarence Thomas, Anthony Scalia....) to manipulate or control elections. (2000 Election and yes even the 2004 Election, but many others whether they were both Democrat & Republican)
Click to expand...

well DAMN if i didnt see MORE than one simliarity between that list and our CURRENT STATE under the Bush Admnistration.

thank you.
 
Spellbinder said:
just because something is APPEALING doesnt mean its right. its NOT right for folks to think that the moral compass of the right wing or religious right is the ONLY compass for ALL people in america. NOT everyone in this country is a bible thumping christian and there is a REASON for "seperation of church and state"...its NECESSARY.

the world grows more dangerous for US as a country because BUSH is alienating our allies with his unilateral actions. he is NOT improvign relations overseas...but ERRODING THEM. The world is more dangerous for US because Bush is using his power to try to FORCE his "ideals" on other countrys (iraq anyone)? we have problems here in our own country that are in dire need of addressing and yet...we are now TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS in debt because of a war that shouldnt have happened.

and as for him "NOT instigating 9/11"...thats something i dont even want to get into..not yet anyway

and you DONT think that this country is becoming a facist republic? lets review the signs..shall we? and see if there isnt MORE than one parallel between that and what is happening here right now



well DAMN if i didnt see MORE than one simliarity between that list and our CURRENT STATE under the Bush Admnistration.

thank you.
Click to expand...

You're suggesting that the government is impeding upon church vs state, which is simply not the case. Whether or not you like what the people believe, the government can't be blamed for the stupidity of the public.

He is alienating our allies. But really, America's brashness has always been a problem. It's nothing new. Wars cost money, yes. Taking dangerous dictators out of power costs money, yes. However, every country has its debts, and while this fact certainly doesn't make the situation right, it in no way means Bush has single-handedly driven us to the ground. Economics are complicated, and the variables vast. It would be wholly ignorant to blame Bush for all of our economic woes.

That list is far too long and my time too short for me to rebuttal every single point but, for example, the allegation that the government is sexist.. I KNOW you did not say that with Rice in mind. George W. Bush's religious claims have not affected how he runs the government -- going into Iraq based on some religious inspiration would have beckoned assassination.
 
The only light at the end of this never ending tunnel is the fact that he CAN'T be re-elected again. THANK GOD.

Downfall...whomever the next president is has a whole lot of cleaning up to do. Bush has fucked over our economy, fucked over the government, fucked over our country's status and reputation, but most importantly, fucked over US. The people. The people whom he "cares" about. Bullshit. Did he care about the troops when he sent them over sea? People who have families. Mothers, fathers, wives, children? NO. Did he care about the homosexual's when he wanted to pass a law OUTLAWING their RIGHT to get married? NO. All he cares about is the glory of being the president. The fucking title. The power. Did he realize it was an actual job running the country?? No. He can't even fucking speak a full sentence without stuttering.

I can't stand Bush. I think he is a waste of space and about as intelligent as the shrub he's named after. And the ironic thing? I live in a damn state that has nothing but BUSH SUPPORTERS. Anytime I see a bumper sticker I wanna ram the fuckers cars. Ya'll can say I’m being hardheaded, don't know what I’m talking about, or say all the perks that Bush has supposedly done. Or even throw in that the people elected him. I DIDN’T, so I could care less what is said. He's incompetent and doesn't deserve one second, much less another 3 years, as president of this country.
 
Shockwave said:
The only light at the end of this never ending tunnel is the fact that he CAN'T be re-elected again. THANK GOD.

.
Click to expand...

dont be too sure. when his DADDY was in office, they tried to pass a "lifetime presidency" bill which would have allowed him to remain in office for a second AND third time (assuming he had been re-ellected)
and given how crooked and disregarding W. Bush is of our laws and traditions (gutting the filibuster just to be able to push through his extremist judicial candidates among other things) i wouldnt doubt if he didnt try the same thing ...citing that he has to "see the war through" or some nonsense like that.

and isnt ANYONE going to read the "signs of facism" list that i posted? i think its VERY relevant to this discussion and deserves some attention.
 
If that ever happened, I would leave th country. No doubt in my mind. I would pack my shit up leave. Period.
 
Actually in my estimate..both parties, and all candidates are just about the same...
There are Huge, Broad , Issues & Topics that the media spin to give a bright sheen to the differences, but it is only to confuse the masses into choosing sides.
The similarities are never really spoken of..

For example...

The Bush Family, Kerry & Clinton are all Yalies..
Blue blooded WASP New England blue bloods.
They are all Skull & Crossboners..
All have worked w/ The Trilateral Commission, & The CFR or Council on Foreign Relations
Clinton is a Bilderberg & both Bush & Kerry are involved w/ The Carlyle Group.
Basically just the global versions of the Italian mob.

They are all related to each other through bloodlines, although several generations removed

The fate of the economic world is settled by a small groups that contain even a smaller population of criminals who set the play into motion..

The Illuminati stands as the sickening foundation of this country, and everywhere we look the signs are easily seen.
From every single piece of paper currency that we use, to the general construction of buildings like the Pentagon, & The Washington Monument.

Anyone that could be taken seriously, who dared to reveal or to strip this down to the bare bones for a real change....was silenced

Bobby Kennedy was the only such example of a person i can think of with the clout..

He's dead..

They're actually building camps in secluded parts of the southwestern US states now...
Not for prisoners of war, but for us...
For the days comiing soon when there will be another civil war..


Scary thought...


http://www.infowars.com/
 
You know what? You people deserve to have Kerry as your president and let him run the country into the ground...have fun with that.
 
Spellbinder said:
just because something is APPEALING doesnt mean its right. its NOT right for folks to think that the moral compass of the right wing or religious right is the ONLY compass for ALL people in america. NOT everyone in this country is a bible thumping christian and there is a REASON for "seperation of church and state"...its NECESSARY.

the world grows more dangerous for US as a country because BUSH is alienating our allies with his unilateral actions. he is NOT improvign relations overseas...but ERRODING THEM. The world is more dangerous for US because Bush is using his power to try to FORCE his "ideals" on other countrys (iraq anyone)? we have problems here in our own country that are in dire need of addressing and yet...we are now TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS in debt because of a war that shouldnt have happened.

and as for him "NOT instigating 9/11"...thats something i dont even want to get into..not yet anyway

and you DONT think that this country is becoming a facist republic? lets review the signs..shall we? and see if there isnt MORE than one parallel between that and what is happening here right now

14 signs that your government is Facist

How many apply to the U.S. and the agenda of "Conservatives, Right Wing, Republicans"--Coincedence or not, you be the judge?

1.Powerful and Continuing Nationalism
Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottoes, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.(Extremely common after 9/11, lapels on everyone's coats,jackets and flags everywhere)


2.Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights
Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture-(Abu Ghraib), summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners-(Guantanamo Bay), etc.


3.Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause
The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.("War On Terror",Iraq,Afghanistan, Arabs, Muslims..etc.)


4.Supremacy of the Military
Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.("Support Our Troops...", GI JOE toys, Armed Forces Commercials, extreme proliferation of military video games and media from Tom Clancy's series,Socom and various others and also heavy military spending in favor of real social issues at home.)


5.Rampant Sexism
The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid-(Laura Bush) Opposition to abortion is high as well as pro death penalty, as is homophobia and anti-gay legislation and national policy.("Doublethink" philosophy of right to life usually means the opposite as in most right to life people are pro death penalty, as far as the abortion issue, its they that want to decide who lives or not as well. The 2004 presidential election main issues for Bush "winning" the election)


6.Controlled Mass Media
Sometimes the media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.(FOX News Channel,Clear Channel,CNN, MSNBC, ABC, New York Post..etc)


7.Obsession with National Security
Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.(Constant false "terror" threat reminders red, blue, orange, extensive police and military prescence in public places)

8.Religion and Government are Intertwined
Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation (Christianity) as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders (Pat Roberts,Jerry Falwell,Ann Coulture,etc.Bush originally referred to a "Crusade" for his redeclared"War On Terror", also claims God chose him to lead the nation, numerous mentions to being "Born Again"), even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions.


9.Corporate Power is Protected
The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.(Enron, Tyco, MCI Worldcom,Halliburton..etc...)


10.Labor Power is Suppressed
Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed .(Labor movements have long since been demonized as communists,socialists,leftists,etc because of the threat to private power, now when we think "Union", the "Mafia" automatically comes to mind and everything else negative associated with it.Corporations control everything! too long to list!)


11.Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts
Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts is openly attacked, and governments often refuse to fund the arts.(Drastic cutbacks in education and art programs throughout the entire nation)


12.Obsession with Crime and Punishment
Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.(USA Patriot Act, Total Information Awareness..nuff said)


13.Rampant Cronyism and Corruption
Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.(Too many to list here but Dick Cheney is one them)


14.Fraudulent Elections
Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against (John Kerry's war record and "Flip Flopper" remarks also 2000 Primary where Karl Rove smear campaigns on John McCain) or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries,(Electoral College) and manipulation of the media(FOX News Channel). Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries (Katherine Harris, Clarence Thomas, Anthony Scalia....) to manipulate or control elections. (2000 Election and yes even the 2004 Election, but many others whether they were both Democrat & Republican)

well DAMN if i didnt see MORE than one simliarity between that list and our CURRENT STATE under the Bush Admnistration.

thank you.
Click to expand...

On that entire list... I saw ONE thing that list that did NOT directly apply to the current state of the nation... "Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested."

The rest... Christ... this is a new low. I'm embarrassed. Its no WONDER the rest of the world despises us and thinks us a joke. I cant even BEGIN to comment on this. Will someone here defend Bush NOW?

Vilandra... we dont deserve to have Kerry run us into the ground... [Bush is doing that anyways, its evident.] What we DO DESERVE, however... is a BETTER GOVERNMENT. As a NATION... its owed to us. this is NOT the country it was intended to be.

Hey, you know what? We should've NEVER even considered impeaching Clinton... Bush... HAS GOT TO GO... I dont think our economy, our PEOPLE can survive 3 more years.
 
we dont deserve to have Kerry run us into the ground... [Bush is doing that anyways, its evident.] What we DO DESERVE, however... is a BETTER GOVERNMENT. As a NATION... its owed to us. this is NOT the country it was intended to be.
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Hallelujah....

Yes Democrat Republican...
Same sh*t, different guise...

Think of the real foundation of our Gov't & it's easy to see how it would all come back & blow up in our faces..

It's never the elite that suffer these indignities, but the poor & the common do.

The Constitution needs a radical re-examination and revamp to actually work for us in this new millenium.
America the Beautiful, & Star Spangled freedoms are really only for those elite.
Yet many are so afraid of being construed as anything but red-white & blue, so they sing loud & proud. alas..1.Powerful and Continuing Nationalism.

It's quite a list.
I read it on a different board some weeks back and just said (YEP!)
 
President Bush is our President, and he has been insulted left and right by those who hate him for the sake he's the President and he's a Republican. With that being said here are the facts

1. Bush started off with an election that was shaky in 2000 many folks in my home state of Florida know they voted for GORE and feel that GORE won that election,
his brother running the state and Katherine Harris working behind the scenes made sure that the word was out that Bush won, . . sort of . .

2. Bush didn't do anything really, his no child left behind has been a joke.

3. Bush on 9.11.01 had America behind him, and he did the right thing in invading Afghanastan and doing "black ops" missions to kill our enemies.

4. Bush has not done anything to secure our border, nor stop sending jobs over seas.

5. Bush was part of the "mis information" aka lies and deception concerning the Iraq War, Bush also blew the after math and post war planning, Iraq is a disaster and he and his administration have failed misreably.

6. BUSh has done nothing to curtail crime, in fact cime is up under Bush, folks in America are afraid to leave their homes because of thugs, even the cops are afraid.

7. Bush is not to blame for the New Orleans disaster, it's more of the Mayor of New Orleans and governor of Lousianna.

That's my view of Bush he didn't have the experience or knowledge to be President and since his presidency has been rough he has failed.
 
Good points Zorcrow, the only thing I have to comment on is Number 7, I agree with the statement but part of the problem is that the Extra help that the Mayor and Governer should be calling on is from our troops and because of Bush that help isnt availible, also the funding they need isnt availible. If bush was doing his job he should be in a position to take a disaster like this out of thier hands hand handle it much quicker.
 
I gotta go with greatness on Number 7, With the devestation so wide spread and rampant through New Orleans, the country not just the city needs a strong leader to stand up and be accounted for to take responsibilty of the situation.

The events in New Orleans is way out of the Mayor's depth by the looks of it. To secure the city it is going to take the country to fix it. And that is Bush's responsibiluty to make sure that America is doing its best to help down there. All the Mayor and Govener can now do is ask for help. Bush can actually provide the help. It's his resposibility.
 
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